Introduction
It is a great pleasure that today we are publishing the first episode of our talk show “Talks” and I would like to thank both our interviewee of the day and all followers of SAP Steps.
The idea of this interview program is to talk to people who are directly connected to the SAP world (Consultants, Project Managers, etc.), as well as to interview people who are on the “business” side and who have been or are going through SAP projects.
Marta is the tax manager of the Brazilian branch of one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world.
Below, I will transcribe the chat we had about the great challenges of the SAP projects that she has already gone through as part of the business and she also spoke a little about the great difficulties of the Brazilian tax scenario.
Interview
Bruno César: Good morning Marta, how are you? First of all, I would like to thank you for participating in our series of interviews. The purpose today is to pass on to SAP Steps readers the view of an experienced tax professional on the SAP project area. To start, could you tell us a little about yourself, what do you do? Feel free to say what you want.
Marta Lima: Good morning Bruno, I also appreciate the opportunity. I admire people who undertake in the search for simplification in a world taken by creators of complexity to sell facilities.
Well, I’m an Accountant but I’ve been working in the tax area since 1996. I started my career in the state of Santa Catarina / Brazil where I was born and I can say that my career has always had an indirect relationship with SAP, as my first opportunity to work in a multinational was in 1999, due to the need to hire temporary resources to act as backfill during the implementation of SAP in “Cia de Papel e Celulose”, Klabin – from the go-live of the project in 2001, I have always been in contact with implementation projects, upgrades, and implementations of new solutions associated with SAP. Having started in a factory, I ended up developing my career with a very strong base of continuous improvement, I have certification in Lean Manufacturing, Six Sigma and other methodologies that I have been adding to the tax function that I exercise in the companies where I work. Over the years, the combination of this acquired knowledge and developed capabilities has become a very strong technological bias in my profile, as the Tax Technology area has been creating form, importance, and strength within the Tax area and I have always identified myself with it. I love to challenge the way things are done and more than that I like to work and form teams that have this characteristic so that they know more than usual for a tax resource. I like to think that I contribute to people’s careers by transmitting what I have learned over the years and by providing a tool that is not yet widely disseminated in the world of tax professionals.
Bruno César: After hearing a little bit about you, I wanted to get into our topic of today, which is precisely the area of SAP projects. We met in 2019 on an SAP project. I was acting as a consultant and you were one of the main people in the project acting in front of taxes. That project was the creation of a new company within SAP, and we worked together with the global team of the company in question. I know it was not a very easy project for those involved (it never is).
But, for you, what is the biggest challenge in a project of this size?
Marta Lima: It is difficult to establish what is the biggest challenge in a project that demands the creation of synergy between various areas, which has a wide scope, competition for resources and global support among other countries and, on this occasion that you mention, that had a very short period implementation, since the deadline was established by a factor external to the term normally wanted for implementation of this size, given that it was a deliverable from another major M&A project. But given all that, I would say that in this case, the biggest challenge was management, to orchestrate this set of characteristics and challenges so that each area delivered on time and with the required quality what was demanded of each one.
Bruno César: In your project experience, do you feel that planning is a point that is often a problem? (Both for the company and the consulting side)
Marta Lima: Undoubtedly, and the planning gaps have different origins, depending on the characteristics of the project, and especially for those working in global companies, there are occasions when the market is not involved in the planning phase, a pre-prepared MISP is received and the from it, the markets receive very short deadlines to make their notes and defend their specificities. Many unmapped situations arise throughout the project and a high level of problem-solving skills are required from the participants. But the perfect world certainly does not exist and if it did, it would hardly be efficient, as we cannot forget that business needs to be prioritized and the ability to accommodate these unexpected situations efficiently ends up becoming a differential for the professional who works in this environment.
Bruno César: And what do you think about the question of having a global team managing the project? Help or hinder?
Marta Lima: Being Cartesian in stating whether it helps or hinder, would not allow us to evaluate the pros and cons that global management brings. If I were to answer this question 15 years ago, I would certainly point out as a major bottleneck, however, over the past few years, organizations and SAP itself have greatly improved the reach of ERP, the understanding of the challenges of each market, and today, for example, less time is spent proving the need for a market than in the past. I have the impression that in the past we were much more knowledgeable when we brought a specificity of the market that needed to be addressed in the project. Of course, this is also related to the maturity of each company concerning the requirements of an ERP implementation. Although SAP has been in Brazil for several years, some companies have recently implemented it and with that, the teams are new, including globally, but no less experienced, since whenever there is a situation like this, the companies try to hire experienced resources. What I have seen happen when forming a new team to meet SAP demands globally is a limitation in the knowledge of the Businesses and consequently greater questions to each requirement. On the other hand, acting in a project managed globally ends up demanding more from the professional who is in charge of the project here in Brazil. This professional must present communication skills in the language, adapt to differences in time zones when required, have the knowledge and know-how to navigate in the corporate environment, and become this professional is very positive, as it brings a unique opportunity for those who want to develop in this area.
Bruno César: And the relationship with the project consultants. Could you make any comments?
Marta Lima: Relationships are fundamental in any environment. The responsibilities associated with projects of this magnitude and consequently the demands for results, organically expose the level of stress, which if not well managed can bring serious consequences and even compromise the result of a project. A good relationship, based on respect for the human being, for the expertise of each one to establish solid relationships of trust from there, has the power to converge problems into solutions. I am not an expert, but I perceive a subjective characteristic in the performance of a team formed by key users, consultants, PMO, when the bond exceeds the scope for which each one was hired to execute and there is a legitimate interest in making things happen and working out. Not to mention, of course, that projects have always created opportunities for me to meet brilliant people that I am happy to call them friends to this day. Like almost all experiences in life, projects yield good fights, frustrations, and some disappointments, but also extraordinary experiences, such as the creation of a help and knowledge network that benefits everyone.
Bruno César: Many people are very curious (mainly foreigners) when it comes to projects in Brazil, due to fiscal complexity. You, as professional experience in this area, have a deep view of this point. In your opinion, why do you think Brazil is such a complex country for SAP projects?
Marta Lima: In my opinion, the territorial dimension associated with the Brazilian complexity is associated with the economic and tax structure in Brazil, the tax regulation reaches all the operations of a company making what would be a simple operation mainly from the view of a foreigner gain developments that even Brazilian executives question. I have had endless teleconferences to explain situations such as mandatory issuing of invoices for symbolic transactions, for example. You can ask me, as I have heard many times, why Brazil would be more complex than other large countries, with such a complex tax system. I would say that the element of legal uncertainty and which results in instability where the rules change all the time challenge the ability to implement on time and the required quality are the main reason why we are still at the top of the list concerning the number of hours invested to meet legal requirements. It is very challenging, for example, to combine the execution of governance that goes from the interpretation of the standard, the definition of the scope, carrying out tests, preparation of technical documentation and approval of each phase, with the deadlines that the government regularly determines to implement a change. This scenario often results in periods when we have to establish workarounds to temporarily cover an obligation until the system is ready. Although within this context, I believe that today we live another moment and we gain through experience the speed to act in this context without forgetting to mention the great technological advances of the companies and also of the national tax system (reference in some countries) that has allowed to improve the ability to cover requirements, but we are still a long way from a stable scenario.
Bruno César: Do you have any hints for foreigners who are participating or who will participate in a project in Brazil?
Marta Lima: I don’t know if it would be a hint, but a finding. By history it could already be a global premise: there is no template capable of covering two projects, the projects can be similar, but never the same.
If the tip is for a foreign consultancy I would say that even if a project is managed globally, try to have local specialist resources, as this shortens many alignments. If the tip is for the technology area of the company that hires consultancies and manages the project, it would be, although there is a responsibility associated with the project PMO, to fulfill the scope, manage resources and time efficiently, be open to listening to the market weights.
Bruno César: For you, what would the structure of a perfect project look like? (team, management, etc.)
Marta Lima: Perfection in the sense of the word is a utopia, but a structure that converges to the expected result is perfect in what is proposed. More than discussing project structure, I think that we are living in a moment of profound changes in work relations and time management. The way we measure results no longer meets today’s needs, and some project management methodologies that although known globally for more than 10 years as Scrum, for example, are beginning to be applied to projects, changing the structures we were used to working. I advocate structures that mitigate scaling of themes in a matrix way, in which the smaller the number of reports in the hierarchy and the smaller the distance between those who report the problem and those who decide on the solution, the better the results will be and the speed of the solutions.
Bruno César: Now thinking about consultancies and consultants who usually work on projects, what do you think they can improve?
Marta Lima: Consultancies and consultants have been changing over time. But we still find situations and certain types of partners that do not engage in their customers. They could improve the way they read the results and thereby obtain results adjacent to the simple receipt of the value agreed by an implementation for example. There is a lot of value associated with the results that the companies achieve and also project in society as a result of a partner action. As for consultants, there is a rare behavior, but when found it turns a consultant’s delivery level into a project. Again, I do not want to ignore here the reasons that support how the working relations between company and consultant, contractor, and contractor are guided, and which delimit the scope of the allocated professional’s performance. I would attribute more to the professional profile when it demonstrates the ability to immerse itself in a short period in the scope of the project and understand the organizational culture of the client in which it is allocated, and thereby truly wear the project shirt. I would not say the shirt of the contracting company, because then I would be advancing to a scenario that I am not an expert to try to define what it would be like to wear a company shirt. Especially because the consultant is often an independent professional who does not even have an established working relationship with the consultancy that allocated him. But I see that sometimes some professionals do not dissociate the characteristic independence of their model of action from the lack of involvement and engagement with the project and there is a distance that works almost like a safety margin on which the consultants rely and with that often do not get deeply involved with the project’s objective. I do not speak here of an almost irrational emotional involvement, but an involvement that differentiates the level of commitment that the consultant demonstrates and applies in his performance.
Bruno César: For you, what are the 3 biggest challenges of an SAP project?
Marta Lima: It even seems incongruous because they are such key points in a project, but in my view, the 03 biggest challenges are to define the scope correctly, allocate the appropriate resources that will have the necessary knowledge, either from the business point of view or from the technical point of view of the tool and carrying out the tests. This is because there is a very large chain between these three points. Only with a well-defined scope, will it be possible to correctly map the scenarios that will be implemented/developed and tested. Allocating the right people allows, for example, that a possible scope definition gap, even though with a certain loss of efficiency, already as a change request, is captured and possible issues that would compromise the project’s results are mitigated in time. Unfortunately, it is still common for some of these steps to be neglected and for example in the testing phase the correct visibility of the scope of the implementation is lacking, either to make it clear that everything has been covered or not to sin due to preciosity in a less relevant scenario at the expense of a much more important scenario.
Bruno César: What do you think about the language point in global projects? How has your experience been throughout your career?
Marta Lima: It is not possible to participate in a project in a key position, in project management for example, without mastering the main language that will be used. If we are talking about a regional project in which the PMO and the consultants speak Spanish, mastery of Spanish is required, if it is a global project, in which the main language is English, the key person needs to master English. The communication itself is already riddled with addictions and challenges that restrict the ability of a message to reach the recipient properly, if we add to that, the limit of knowledge of the language can face disastrous results. What I have seen happen and in a very positive way, and especially speaking of the tax area that still suffers from limitations about resources that speak a second language, is to make it possible for people who do not yet speak the language, but who already have a level of understanding start working on projects. When we talk about key users, however, what we cannot lose sight of, is that in technical functions and a scenario of a scarcity of bilingual resources, it is preferable to have a person who masters the technical aspects of the business area who acts, and bears the burden of translating and transcribing the requirements, to allocate a resource fluent in English who does not know the operation and has the autonomy to make process definitions that may compromise the results of the project or in an even more serious scenario, the operation company, exposing it, for example, to tax risks.
Bruno César: Marta, I want to thank you for your participation. It was a great pleasure to have you here answering so many questions!
Marta Lima: The pleasure was all mine!
Bruno César: That’s it for today guys, I thank you from the heart for the presence of our guest Marta Lima and I hope you all enjoy the chat we had today.
Conclusion
I hope you enjoyed our first interview (of many) on our Talks program.
If you liked this content, I ask you to share it with friends and leave a comment with your opinion.
If you have any suggestions (including subjects you would like to read about or possible candidates to be interviewed), feel free to send an email to sapsteps@sapsteps.com.
A big hug,
Bruno César
